tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post4064277785271981189..comments2024-03-27T00:18:03.174-07:00Comments on Sperling Grove: The Search for Useful Metrics & Fair DiscussionMatt Sperlinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09068116459532701291noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-14774228520742617552020-12-01T17:51:41.732-08:002020-12-01T17:51:41.732-08:00if we use state championship qualification to meas... if we use state championship qualification to measure status or progress,.<br /><br /><br /><a href="https://www.uplay365.com/" rel="nofollow">AS Casino</a><br /><a href="https://www.uplay365.com/" rel="nofollow">EVO Club</a>UplayOnlinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17638549039069707444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-9117677293970149382020-09-11T01:14:45.123-07:002020-09-11T01:14:45.123-07:00when their behavior lies well within accepted grou...when their behavior lies well within accepted group standards? That's difficult.<br /><br /><a href="https://www.uplay365.com/" rel="nofollow">W88 Club</a><br /><a href="https://www.uplay365.com/" rel="nofollow">W88</a>riiya819https://www.blogger.com/profile/14372871612366532490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-66306895466737851992017-12-05T00:41:12.117-08:002017-12-05T00:41:12.117-08:00David and his friends make money from the state ch...David and his friends make money from the state championshipAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-30549945382878591332017-10-28T16:09:13.016-07:002017-10-28T16:09:13.016-07:00I agree with your points, but some still see these...I agree with your points, but some still see these kind of observations as problematic since they feel you don't sufficiently address the fact that even though women being present in the Pro Tour isn't necessarily the best way to declare success in inclusivity, it's important to state that it's the most promising means to achieving it. I think that's what people mean when they keep insisting you're "missing the point". I disagree with that personally, I see your argument as a way to improve discourse in a small way, and you certainly don't challenge the actual main goals of the original article, but simply amending a more forceful recognition of the fact that visibility of women in the Pro Tour is a fantastic means to an end and not necessarily the goal would improve people's reception to your view point. It may sound silly, but you can't argue against the fact that it would certainly be more positive if it's said more often.Jesús Imeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04553487459531948618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-1314690851575603752017-10-28T07:49:40.724-07:002017-10-28T07:49:40.724-07:00Honestly, I find this issue very frustrating, as a...Honestly, I find this issue very frustrating, as a frequent critic of the sort of behaviors that are being called out here. The problem as I see it, is that this isn't really a problem with an individual (although as people largely exist on spectrums, of course some are people are going to be better/worse than others) at least to me this is a problem with a broader culture. <br /><br />To use the SSC lingo, I do think there are serious issues in Blue Tribe culture with this stuff (As well as the Red Tribe). I identify pretty strongly with what would be called the Grey Tribe (I.E. not Blue or Red), and while I think the Grey Tribe has issues of its own...this isn't one of them. It's not unique or new. It's been flooding out, to be sure, since the Weinstein stuff came out (again, not a surprise to the Grey Tribe, although maybe the flood of information coming out is).<br /><br />The truth is that I'm a strong critic of the Blue Tribe. I think there's big issues with sexism/racism/misogyny/abuse/etc, who largely justify it because the Red Tribe are worse (they probably are). But it's missing that there's a Grey tribe out here. Who has cookies. And individualism. <br /><br />I legitimately feel that the people who read that article, and nod their head with the strict identitarian perspective, are substantially more likely to act in those harmful ways than people who don't. All my experience points me in that direction. So even though I really do think there's a problem (I just don't think the bulk of it is a Magic problem, although certainly there's overlapping Venn circles)..there's nothing I can do as an individual to fix it, because IMO the problem isn't individuals, it's social norms in a tribe/subculture I'm not a part of. (Quite frankly, I'm often seen as some MAGA-hat wearing proto-Nazi). <br /><br />I also think there's structural issues in Magic that get ignored, especially financial barriers. Again, not unique or special, it's always been my experience that as people adopt the idea that the Blue Tribe's social/cultural dominance is the solution, that concern about structural issues gets pushed to the wayside. <br /><br />So yeah. It's not that I don't think that there's a problem. And I'd LOVE to change the status quo. (I'd love to burn our system of social/cultural standards to the ground and build it back up from scratch) And I can call out individuals. But individuals who have the social/cultural backing of a dominant tribal affiliation, when their behavior lies well within accepted group standards? That's difficult. Karmakinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-9459846806774093002017-10-28T05:39:43.723-07:002017-10-28T05:39:43.723-07:00The bottom line is moving an indicator metric as t... The bottom line is moving an indicator metric as the sole point of arguing about an overall cultural issue instead of concentrating on a sociological approach is flawed. You are making the economist as quant mistake and touch on the real problems (which are cultural about pro tour acting a general gatekeeper effect for homogeneity above and beyond jus gender) and using it to discredit the conclusions through "whataboitism" creating the usual excuses for people to auto-support the status quo. And increase online harassment through the usual acts of "see this person says there aren't numbers" and happens to hit all the right markers of authority to be considered "more expert"<br /><br />There IS an academic approach - however this is not it. This brings up far more issues with Pro Tour than simply gender when you apply the actually appropriate academic approaches to it. Pro Tour is a single metric in a multi indicator tool for assessing accessibility for diverse participation. Drinnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08836936987746258926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-79826502424523581052017-10-28T02:38:19.730-07:002017-10-28T02:38:19.730-07:00As I understand (and I could be wrong as far as st...As I understand (and I could be wrong as far as stats are concerned), it seems that many/most transgender MTG players were MTG players before they decided to transition to becoming a woman (I remember Emma Handy having mentioned this fact about her, and I assume it is true for others in the same situation).Nabil Stendardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16003612249425559540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-235663687017051886.post-52513098996190454922017-10-27T22:21:16.924-07:002017-10-27T22:21:16.924-07:00Well written and reasoned. I think a lot of the p...Well written and reasoned. I think a lot of the push back you are getting comes from people who do not believe (and in some cases think it's immoral to suggest) that women and men have different preferences. One interesting statistic on this front would be the proportion of magic players who are trans women. I suspect they are heavily overrepresented (certainly relative to cis women, probably relative to their population size). I searched briefly for the numbers but could not find them. If my suppositions are right this would be very strong evidence of different preferences being important, as it is difficult to imagine a likely culture that would be more deleterious to cis women playing than trans women. Of course it may be that trans women are still underrepresented relative to their average interest in MTG, even if they are overrepresented by population, so this obviously would not refute arguments re culture also having an impact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com